Elders: Lead!
By In many churches, the elders aren’t really the leaders. But they should be.
ELDERS WHO AREN’T LEADING
Scenario one: The elders are viewed as more of an advisory board. They’re trustees, not teachers. They exercise some responsibility over policies, personnel, and programs, but the only real leader is the senior pastor.
Scenario two: The elders don’t really lead the church because the staff have taken over that role. The staff run all the programs. The staff are most people’s point of contact in the church. If you have a question or problem, you’ll turn to the youth leader or women’s ministry director or discipleship coordinator.
Scenario three: At the other end of the spectrum, these theologically minded elders shy away from anything that remotely resembles administration. Patterning their ministry on the apparent division of labor in Acts 6, the elders devote themselves to the ministry of the Word and prayer and leave everything else to deacons and other church members, from the church budget, to the contents of the worship service, to the selection of books in the bookstore.
In the first two scenarios, the elders need to grow into their role as shepherds (1 Pet. 5:2) and ministers of the Word (1 Tim. 3:2).
The elders in the third scenario are much closer to the mark, but I would suggest that there are some ways in which they’re still failing to truly lead.
ELDERS ARE LEADERS AND OVERSEERS
What does the Bible say about elders’ leadership?
- 1 Timothy 5:17 (NIV) says, “The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.” The Greek term behind “direct the affairs” is proistemi, which has two basic meanings: (i) to exercise leadership, and (ii) to care for someone or something. The first is clearly in view here. The elders exercise leadership over the whole church. In other translations they “rule” or “are leaders.”
- This word also shows up in 1 Timothy 3:4 and 12, where Paul says that both elders and deacons must manage their households well. Managing a household involves comprehensive oversight, including making decisions, teaching, training children, setting a godly example, and competently managing finances. That this kind of leadership is a prerequisite for being an elder suggests that “administration” as such is not beyond the pale of elders’ responsibilities.
- Further, another common term for “elder” in the New Testament is “overseer” (Phil. 1:1; 1 Tim. 3:1-2; Tit. 1:7). This Greek noun (episkopos) and its cognate verb imply the assumption of responsibility and care. Care for what? The church and its affairs.
Therefore, what can look like delegation of administration may in fact be abdication of leadership.
- What about Acts 6? True, the apostles devote themselves to the Word and prayer and refuse to allow administration to usurp those priorities (Acts 6:1-7). But that’s just the point—they don’t allow administration to usurp those priorities. So, they exercise their leadership to come up with a solution that serves the church. They don’t just say, “Distribution of food? That’s not our job!”
Taken together, these New Testament passages clearly teach that the elders have a general responsibility to lead and oversee the affairs of the church. That’s a broad, all-embracing responsibility. Given their primary focus on teaching and attending to the spiritual needs of the flock, elders shouldn’t allow administration to swamp those priorities. Yet on the other hand, they shouldn’t abdicate leadership either.
In general, the extent of their involvement will vary depending on how closely the matter at hand relates to the ministry of the Word and spiritual oversight.
PRACTICAL APPLCATION: TEACHING, WORSHIP, BOOKSTALL, BUDGET
What does this mean practically?
Preaching and teaching: The elders will likely do the majority of it, and they will exercise very close oversight over other teachers who contribute. The elders should also exercise oversight over the content that is taught in every area of the church’s life, from small groups to children’s ministry to evangelistic outreaches. This doesn’t mean the elders need to do all the teaching. But it does mean that the elders as a whole have a special responsibility for everything that is taught.
Corporate worship: The elders are finally responsible for the contents, since corporate worship is a ministry of the Word. A non-elder should not have full and final authority over, for example, what songs the church sings. The elders may decide to delegate much of the work to, for example, a theologically sound and musically gifted deacon, but it should be clear to all involved—including the congregation—that the elders are responsible for the contents of corporate worship.
Bookstall: The elders should have the say over what books are and aren’t included. After all, recommending books is an extension of the ministry of the Word. They may assign one elder or a theologically discerning deacon to manage the store, and perhaps do most of the legwork for selecting titles. But the elders should have veto power over what books are sold.
The church budget: This is trickier territory. On the one hand, the elders should work not to get bogged down in endless details. So it makes good sense to farm out much of the legwork to one or more deacons, or the treasurer, or other godly and trustworthy individuals in the church.
On the other hand, the elders should set the overall direction for the budget, since it reflects and embodies the church’s ministry priorities. So the elders should lead the church in considering how much money to give to missions, how much and what kind of staff should serve the church, what local evangelistic ministries to partner with and to what extent, and so on.
Also, it takes godliness and maturity to ensure that pastors are paid enough (1 Tim. 5:17; Gal. 6:6). Not every budget committee obeys Scripture’s clear command to provide for our pastors’ needs.
Thus, the elders should handle the aspects of budgeting that most directly relate to spiritual oversight and the ministry priorities which flow from the Word. And they should gladly delegate much of the plumbing work to other godly church members, who perhaps work together with a small subset of fiscally wise elders.
Of course this is a difficult balance to strike in practice. But my main point is that it should be the elders, not the deacons, or treasurer, or some political cabal, who are “in charge of” putting together the budget. As every leader knows, delegation is essential to leadership. Leading doesn’t mean doing everything yourself. But the budget should be, and should be seen to be, a matter in which the elders lead and exercise substantial authority.
ELDERS: LEAD!
My basic point in all this is that the elders should lead the church. This leadership flows from teaching the Word, setting a godly example, and attending to the spiritual state of the flock. But it also flows into all kinds of practical matters as those matters intersect with the church’s theological vision.
Bobby Jamieson's Posts
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I appreciate your article. I'm 6 months into a new church as the preacher/only staff member of a small, country church and I have struggled a good amount with 2 of my 3 elders for numerous reasons.
Given what is said in your article, is there any point in which you think it is appropriate to suggest that an elder step down from his position as elder?
The context of my question is one of my elders seems to be getting to an age where he's not entirely mentally there (e.g. He labeled me a heretic in my second board meeting at the church and everyone else didn't know what he was saying). He also left our board meeting early without saying a word to go home as I was sharing something personal.
All that being said, it's hard because I want to love him and help him grow as a leader, but I don't know if he's honestly capable, and with me being new and young makes it all the more difficult.
So I was wondering if it was appropriate to talk to him about his future as an elder, bring it up at a board meeting with everyone else, or let him stay (seeing as how we don't have many other men that seem to fit the qualifications of an elder).
Any thoughts would be appreciated! Thanks!
Hi Chris, this is a great question. My suggestion is don't make it public, but make it private and be very long suffering and forbearing with any elder/leader/pastor. Show much more mercy and grace than they may show to you--over a very, very long time. I can go into detail if you want, but that would be my suggestion based from:
Hebrews 13:17, Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.
I Thess. 5:12-13, But we request of you, brethren, that you appreciate those who diligently labor among you, and have charge over you in the Lord and give you instruction, and that you esteem them very highly in love because of their work.
and other passages
And as you talk with him (which will be multiple conversations, I'm sure) appeal to him gently and with humility:
I Tim. 5:1, Do not sharply rebuke an older man, but rather appeal to him as a father, to the younger men as brothers,
Chris, God takes leadership very seriously because He is the One Who ultimately gives them authority for a season--even the harder ones. Do a broad study of leadership in the Scriptures and you'll see it's true--but study with the eyes of Phil. 2:5-8, Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Do everything as privately as you can until it becomes apparent that he is in unrepentant sin vs. just not your style.
Hope this helps! Keep pressing on and trust a very, very Big God! :) :)
Kim
Unbelievable. Neither in the article itself nor in Kim's further explanation is there any reference to the several scriptures, in both Old and New Testaments, telling elders (or pastors) how *not* to lead. Where is the other side of the coin here? Why aren't we hearing the whole counsel of God? Almost everywhere I look there are stories of people being abused at the hands of autocratic, graceless, domineering elders in "Evangelical" churches. Maybe it's just an age-old problem of people loving power, and it will always be so. Or maybe it's because those currently holding power in the church are the ones doing all the teaching and writing (both in churches and in online forums like this one), where they refuse to mention that God places certain limits on the behavior of elders. They want "the sheep" to regard them as inviolable, impeccable: it's a "touch not God's anointed" kind of thing.
For example, Kim quotes 1 Timothy 5:1, but it's not the whole rule out of that chapter. In verses 19 and 20, we read, "Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." So clearly, those who sin are to be approached, accused and reprimanded *before all.* When was the last time you saw, in your church, an elder rebuked before all for his sin? I never have in my entire life. I guess that means elders don't sin, right? QED.
In every organization, for the sake of its proper functioning, there must be leaders and people with whom the final decisions must rest. Otherwise there will be chaos and nothing will get done. But elders are not super-saints; they're not "apostles" or "prophets" of a different order than those who are not elders. They are not closer to God than the rest of us. In fact, *more* is required of those in leadership, not less. Their standards should be higher, not lower. And yet I've seen elders act as if they have carte blanche to say and to do whatever crosses their mind, no matter how damaging to people's lives, simply because they're "the Eeeldeeerrrrs" (pronounced with multiple syllables and a resonating, echoing voice, preferably while pounding a fist on the nearest table). Those of us who are not "given much" in the area of public, visible leadership but are instead "given little" need to remember this and never let those who wield the power coerce, pressure, manipulate, demonize, exclude, harass, berate, belittle or damn us in the name of God. We do not worship God through the elders; they are not our priests; they are not our mediators with God; and our "submission" to them in non-Scriptural areas does not equal obedience to God. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
[To All, I'm sorry my comments came through multiple times. I kept pressing enter because they weren't showing up. I guess I was being too impatient.]
Hi David, Wow! That was a handful. I certainly appreciate your feedback. It appears you're quite passionate about this. Guns blazing, I believe, is not the best answer, especially for an admitted new believer who is trying to work through a very, very delicate situation.
May I suggest that you're starting at the wrong end of the interpretation stick. You're starting with stories of power abuse and trying to fit Scripture into that mold, but Scripture won't allow that. We know that Scripture dictates where we start, the middle, and where we end. Scripture absolutely addresses those leaders who abuse power, but that's not where the idea of authority starts. The idea of authority starts with God Himself so all of our ideas MUST FIT into how God views authority from the top down; not how we view it from earthly standards or how we're actually treated. Why?
Because He's the One who turns the King's heart:
Prov. 21:1, The king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the LORD; He turns it wherever He wishes.
Makes nations rise and fall:
Job 12:23, "He makes the nations great, then destroys them; He enlarges the nations, then leads them away.
Tells believing wives to be submissive to unbelieving husbands:
I Peter 3:1-2, In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.
And tells workers with hard bosses to bear through it with fear and trembling:
Titus 2:6-9, Likewise urge the young men to be sensible; 7in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, 8sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us. 9Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,
I've seen it time and time again--people trying to interpret leadership passages through their own perspective, cultural and business guidelines and practices, experiences and/or other faulty interpretation guidelines. They cut and paste a couple of passages, but forget to take the whole/full counsel of God and what He actually says about all leadership and authority--starting with Jesus Christ Himself--the perfect submissive model. They want those leadership verses to stand alone instead of reconciling them with what God actually says about authority and submission when it comes to Who actually gives that authority and is commanding submission. We know we must always interpret the verses on a particular topic based NOT on how we view or judge it, but how God views a particular topic and He has MUCH to say about leadership, authority and submission. They're all tied together--you can't separate it out. It's quite clear really. Only those who want to try and circumvent, mistrust a VERY Big God, or do things culturally misunderstand what God is truly saying about authority and submission in Scripture. Phil. 2:5-8 is quite clear.
Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
David, the same Matt. 7 standard you judge me is the exact same judgement you have for yourself--if you truly desire the "full counsel of God" then look at how God (the topic entirely) views leadership--He appoints, He equips, HE INSTRUCTS, He judges them--THEY give an account to God--not to us--laypeople. Be very very careful of this! God takes His leadership (both good and bad) very seriously because He is the One Who uses them for His purposes--even the sinful ones. He pays back--both good and bad--we are called to submit and cheerfully do the work--AS UNTO THE LORD. Ultimately, we serve Him. A faulty hermeneutic requires too much trust and faith in man--and not enough on the sovereignty, Lordship and ordained counsel of God. It's easy to discern where people place their trust when you see them reacting to bad/abusive leadership.
How one reacts to leadership directly reflects how one views God's authority in the matter.
I was merely trying to encourage a new believer to be walk very carefully in this matter. He has Scripture as His authority, but trying to come at something with the whole "abusive power; transparency is paramount" attitude is not found in Scripture when it comes to how God views leadership and how we, as laypeople, respond. God uses sinful people (like me!) and sinful circumstances -- He's just that big and He's just that trustworthy.
"But elders are not super-saints; they're not "apostles" or "prophets" of a different order than those who are not elders. They are not closer to God than the rest of us. In fact, *more* is required of those in leadership, not less. Their standards should be higher, not lower. And yet I've seen elders act as if they have carte blanche to say and to do whatever crosses their mind, no matter how damaging to people's lives, simply because they're "the Eeeldeeerrrrs" (pronounced with multiple syllables and a resonating, echoing voice, preferably while pounding a fist on the nearest table). Those of us who are not "given much" in the area of public, visible leadership but are instead "given little" need to remember this and never let those who wield the power coerce, pressure, manipulate, demonize, exclude, harass, berate, belittle or damn us in the name of God. We do not worship God through the elders; they are not our priests; they are not our mediators with God; and our "submission" to them in non-Scriptural areas does not equal obedience to God. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise."
David, no one is claiming the above paragraph. This is an unnecessary diatribe.
Thank you for any reasonable exchange and sharpening.
Kim
Kim: I apologize for being shrill, but you're right: this has become an important issue for me over the past year as I've become awakened to the many ways certain "Reformed and Evangelical" churches abuse the authority they have over people's lives, using verses like Hebrews 13:17 in isolation to coerce people to obey them, whether their commands are scriptural or not. My comment was not meant to be a full exposition of the "authority to elders" topic in the Bible. I'm not a teacher or a leader. I'm just a nobody in the pew, but I have my Bible open. In my comment, I was reacting to what I see is a very prevalent one-sided teaching on the matter in the Reformed world today. Not only have I been in a church recently where unquestioning submission to the elders is hammered into people's ears on a weekly basis with no qualifications whatsoever (and equated with obedience/right standing with God) and where the idea of "servant leadership" is constantly being mocked outright, but I look around online and see the same thing. For example, I recently came across Grace to You's statement on "Biblical Eldership" that contained nothing whatsoever about the responsibilities involved in church leadership or the warnings that God issues to them as they are stewards of God's heritage. It's all just about their privileges and prerogatives, and at the end it makes the ludicrous claim that people are suspicious "elder rule" because of American democracy. There's no acknowledgment--there's not even a hint that the person who wrote it is aware of the possibility that people might, just may, be suspicious of authority because it is so frequently abused. Never mind the historical fact that "American democracy" itself was raised up on the foundation of anti-authoritarianism. I see people like Al Mohler defending C. J. Mahaney and John Piper cuddling up to Doug Wilson (whose theology on this point is quite Roman Catholic and leads to abusive situations and who has been accused himself of abusing his authority in the past), and I wonder what this love of autocratic control is all about. Why the fear of accountability?
My only point is that elders do not deserve obedience or submission once they depart from the clear teachings of Scripture. This is so basic that it shouldn't need to be said, but I never see the point made, because (in much of my experience, but not all) those in church power are so zealous of keeping their authority that they don't want to give the "sheep" anything by which to scrutinize their behavior. There's an clear imbalance. But elders/leaders do not have the right to command people to sell their property, break up with their boyfriend, move closer to the church, separate from their husband or any number of such things that the person is not convinced the Holy Spirit is leading them to do. And they should not be allowed to threaten them with "church discipline" or excommunication when they resist.
You say that no one is claiming what I wrote in my last paragraph? Maybe not on this blog post, but they most certainly are. If you haven't been exposed to it, count yourself lucky.
Which brings me to a couple things you wrote in your reply. 1) The church is not made up of two separate groups striving against each other. There is no "clergy" and "laity," unless you're a Roman Catholic. What you call the "laymen" are as fully Christian and as fully endowed with the Holy Spirit and the Scripture as any elder or pastor, individual differences aside (obviously). So I deny that premise. 2) Elders most certainly do give an account to those they lead. In most churches, thanks to the Reformation, the congregation gets to choose from among themselves who leads them. If the elder shows himself untrustworthy, they (should) have the right to replace him. Also, as I mentioned, elders who sin are to be rebuked before all. (I'm still looking forward to hearing anyone's report of having seen this actually take place in any church.)
I really don't have anything further to add on this topic. I merely wanted to inject a comment or two from the other side of the argument, so that people who read "obey your elders" blog posts with no qualifications will understand that their elders are not mediators between them and God. Elders sin in their jobs, and when they do the "laity" should have the courage, on the basis of God's Word, to call them on it.
Hi David, your apology is accepted and really not necessary. I was only hoping to point out how aggressive you sounded, to me (maybe me only), in black and white text, as you were sharing a lot of your testimony. I actually enjoy hearty exchanges as long as it's based on Scripture and not "my experience." I don't mind the back and forth in a Prov. 27:17 way and actually appreciate it. :) I truly appreciated your comments. My original comments to "Chris" were purposefully one-dimensional only because of the qualification "Chris" gave which was I thought he mentioned he was either new to the church or a new believer. Either way, I felt like he needed a more gentle approach; not guns blazing. And if he does choose to confront (which he should if he feels there's a pattern of sin that's hurting the church) then there's all sorts of Matt. 18 guidelines to follow and he needs to be ready to follow them to the end and not quit, or he is sinning against His Lord. That's why I was hoping to resolve it peacefully--as much as it depends on him:
Rom. 12:18, If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
(Chris, do a study on peace, grace, love, mercy, etc. There's much more about exhibiting these traits, commanded in Scripture--even in the face of persecution, hard trials, etc. than there is about confrontation or being harsh with someone. There's also a great deal said about enduring through major trials as well--with all of those traits in tact.)
Here, Paul is saying that a person shows maturity with how they speak truth in love:
Eph. 4:14-16, As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15but speaking the truth in love, we are to **grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,** 16from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
I Peter 4:12-14, Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; 13but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation. 14If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.
Rom. 5:3-5, And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; 4and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; 5and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
David, I actually agree with what you said in terms of confronting and an equal standing before God; equal enough to see and/or confront an elder/leader/pastor, etc. who is not living "above reproach"--a qualification of God's leadership in His church. You're absolutely right. I do, however, defend, my exposition on God's view in leadership (all leadership; not just in the church), because I believe, after studying it, it is biblical. God takes leadership (and our responses to them) seriously because HE is the one that puts them in charge... and then uses many circumstances (including us "laypeople") when they've abused it. But it's up to the rule of a Sovereign God. But remember, leadership is equally used in a layperson's life to root out our sin as well. We're ALL being conformed to the image of Christ--not just laypeople OR leadership. I think we, sitting in the pews, forget that, as well. God can greatly use leadership (even sinful, harsh "masters") to do that.
In regards to your point that I'm trying to be Roman Catholic and separate the groups into leaders vs. laypeople. I apologize if that's the way I "spoke." Certainly not my intention and certainly NOT Scriptural.
Let me try this again. It is clear from Scripture that God raises, not just nations, but individual leaders--ALL types of leadership. So there is some sort of governance that goes beyond just the whole idea of we're all at the same level. Frankly, we're not. Everyone must submit to earthly authorities here--it's quite clear from the verses above. So while we're all Gal. 3:28 the same in Christ with the same standing; the same value; the same sinner :), we're also called and created for different roles. It's why I pointed out the Phil. 2 passage. If Christ can humbly submit to His Father's will, then surely I can. I wanted Chris to have a starting point as he thinks through a really hard situation. Do you agree or would you have started at a different point in Scripture?
And then, as to your point about not having experienced hard leadership. You're absolutely wrong about that. I've even been called various names by leadership--been confronted rudely and harshly by leadership and been passed over for ministry opportunities by leadership, intentional or unintentional--it still hurts quite deeply. Honestly, being in my husband and my position is very unique and we don't find many people who do it. Being under harder leadership is extremely tough!! But we do it with eyes wide open, **with our Bible open** trusting in a loving, caring Heavenly Father that whatever we see working out before our eyes; we are, by faith, walking as children of God in His church.
Regarding to whom the leadership is ultimately accountable to--well, we'll have to just disagree there. I see it differently in Scripture. I realize church history is different, but that's not what I'm basing my conclusion on. :)
Where I would like to end, Chris, is biblical assessment. Chris, I think before you begin any journey you need to fervently pray about your church and the pulpit/teaching ministry. Is the ministry a I Cor. 2:2 ministry? "For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified." If they are, then can I suggest this is a Christ/cross-centered ministry. If it's good enough for the Apostle Paul, then it's good enough for my family, as well.
Phil. 1:12-18, Now I want you to know, brethren, that my circumstances have turned out for the greater progress of the gospel, 13so that my imprisonment in the cause of Christ has become well known throughout the whole praetorian guard and to everyone else, 14and that most of the brethren, trusting in the Lord because of my imprisonment, have far more courage to speak the word of God without fear. 15Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; 16the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; 17the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. 18What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice.
My husband and I continually rejoice and give thanks for our church, not because we think the leadership is perfect or because we think we are. But because as long as the name of Jesus Christ is proclaimed, and He is exulted, we rejoice!! Everything else we can endure for His name's sake--even other people's sin.
David, I hope this isn't our last exchange. You have helped me see that one-dimensional is not always the best way. I believe because of your contribution, Chris, is better seeing a fuller side of Scripture, which is the most beneficial of all--thank you for that!
Blessings to both you and Chris! Merry Christmas, too! :)
Hi Kim, You seem to have a very Scriptural and well-balanced position on this issue. To be honest, I can't really disagree with you about much. I only wish "elders" and pastors would be more humble, quick to apologize and quick to ask for forgiveness whey they have sinned. I really wish they would be more aware of the power they have to hurt those under their "care"--the emotional, psychological and spiritual harm their negative comments can cause.
Elders lead by example (1 Peter 5), whether for good or ill. If they justify themselves before men, like the Pharisees (Luke 16:15), when confronted with their sin and then turn around and rebuke the person confronting them for being insubordinate, what do you think the flock will be like? If they lord it over their flocks, their flocks will either become just like them, lording it over everyone else, or they'll fall into spiritual despair, crushed beneath the weight of a "ministry of condemnation" (2 Corinthians 3). Why is this so hard for people to see?
There is also this reference to government:
Rom. 13:1-5, Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore **whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. *** 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake.
This is a very clear description (along with others) of how God sovereignly rules over authority and how He also demands our full attention to follow these commands. Bad/poor leadership is not restricted to the church only; likewise joyful subjection to authority is not restricted to just good earthly "masters" because it reflects to whom we are really serving and trusting: God or man, which paints a larger picture of how aptly and faithfully we truly understand and are enlightened by the Spirit to true, rich, and a deeper understanding of gospel truth.
There is also this:
Acts 5:29: "Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men."
David, clearly this is not intended to be an all-encompassing discussion of eldership. The purpose is to address those who are not leading as they should - not those who are lording their position over their churches inappropriately. Failure to mention the second scenario does not constitute an endorsement of inappropriate behavior on the part of some elders - it's simply not the scope of this post.
The only thing 'unbelievable' here is your complete over-reaction.
Yeah, I did over-react. Sorry.
PS__Is there an admin. on this blog who could delete my multiple post to Chris? I'm sure it's quite annoying to many. Thanks! :)
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